Leigh Curyer, CEO NexGen Energy

There's a way, a way such a better way today, today Who makes your voice tell the world there's a better way, today there's a better way. This is right Adams and it's time for another Atomic Show. I'm excited to have a guest today from the Uranium Mining Industry. We have talked a lot about nuclear over the years and we have never, or maybe sometime when it just passed. I talked about how these great power sources actually get fuel. The leecurer is the CEO of a company called NextGen, which is developing an amazingly abundant resource in Canada the province of Saskatchewan. Lee, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me, Rod. All right, Lee, I want to start with you telling us a little bit about you and how you got into the business of hard rock mining. Sure, thanks, Rod. Well, it dates back to 2002. I started as a Chief Financial Officer for a small Uranium project in South Australia, where I'm originally from. And I went through the feasibility and permitting of that project before we sold it. But in doing so, I had a real deep search right around the globe to understand what the state of Uranium Mind Supply was from an economic technical and sovereign jurisdiction profile. Because as you could appreciate the location of where Uranium is mined is highly important with respect to providing security or assurance to the end users that that fuel will be available. From that, go forward to 2011. I founded NextGen Energy with a real focus on the Athabasca Basin located in Saskatchewan, Northern Canada. Because it is the home of the world's very high-scraid mines. They're very difficult to find, but they are the, on average about a hundred times the grade of the balance of the deposits right throughout the rest of the globe. And what we did was focus on an area of the basin, which was effectively on the opposite side to where the existing producing mines were located, which are on the north east. And took the simple view that the geology was no different. We had a number of industry participants suggest that that was quite foolish. There'd be no Uranium over that side of the basin. Well, on our 21st rule hole and the 1st rule hole on this particular target ever, we discovered the arrow deposit, which has since become the world's largest high-scraid deposit over a hundred million pounds. It's currently at 350 million pounds. And what makes it very unique is its pristine technical setting. It's an extremely competent basement rock. And it has an exceptionally clean metallurgy. And you consider those aspects plus the grade. Next-gen's arrow deposit on the Rook1 project is considered to be one of the most exciting resources projects full stop in the world across all commodities. And it's carrying out a time where the demand for nuclear energy, nuclear energy is the highest it's ever been. And it's growing way faster than I had ever anticipated back in 2011 when, coming up founding next-gen. We are on the cusp of receiving our final Federal approval and getting it into construction. It'll be a four-year build. Once in production, we'll contribute around 22 to 25% of the world's mind supply. And that's quite incredible to think when you compare it to Saudi Arabia, which currently produces 9% of the world's oil, we will be the most dominant producer and located in Canada, which sovereign history is well known. It's directly to the north of the US, who currently consume around 50 million pounds per annum. And that figure is going up, yet they produce less than 1 million pounds domestically. So Canada, the next-gen Rook1 project is going to be absolutely a key component in delivering this nuclear energy that is in very high demand and increasing demand with all the tech companies, AI data centers being built, which consume huge amounts of power. And he ended up in the interrupt for a second. Someone asked, you started in the uranium business in 2002. And I bet by somewhere around 2006, 2007 you said, I got in the right business. This is great. Yes, I did from a commodity pricing perspective. The uranium price when I started in 2002 was $7 a pound. And then in 2006 and 2008, it hit $136 a pound. So, you know, that was exciting. It was a good business, but Uranium, yeah, let's go forward over the next from 2008, right through to 2022. Probably 14. So, I said, just found a uranium company in 2011. And sometime in March of 2011, the uranium market changed abruptly. Yeah, correct. I started it in the months following March 2011. I saw it as an opportunity to incorporate next-gen, pick up a large land parcel in the Athabasca Basin, the home of the highest grade, highest-tonaged deposits and best sovereign location, instead about it. But, you know, I wouldn't have turned it fun at that particular time. I was optimistic and confident, but raising money for Uranium exploration at that time was incredibly challenging. And, but myself and a dedicated team went about it very diligently. We were successful in raising the money, albeit a very challenging exercise. And on the discovery, those who invested in us were extremely well rewarded. Whilst, arrow is recognized as one of the best geological assets ever in across all resources, it's our responsibility. To extract the uranium in a very socially conscious, environmentally conscious manner. And that's how everyone at the company measures their performance. You mentioned that the deposit is in basement rock. How deep is it from the surface? It starts from 100 metres from surface. It is currently defined down to 920 metres. It's a vertical deposit. And it's open in every direction. And so, it's still yet to be fully defined. We have mineralisation in and around the arrow deposit, which is not currently recorded on the resource estimate. Further drilling will do that. But we're already dealing with what is the world's best. And we will finalise that drilling once we're up and running in production. You mentioned that you have some concentrations from ore concentrate. It is 100 times greater than some of the other mines in the world. What kind of numbers you're talking about? And to put it in the context, the world's average greater production is 0.1%. You throw out eight. We have approximately about 200 million pounds at 20 per cent average grade. We even have intercepts of like 11 metres at 58 per cent. We have a three and a half intercept of 78 per cent uranium. So it is, you know, if it was on to be graphed. When you consider the size and grade, arrow is incredibly dominant on a world scale against the other uranium deposits. Those are numbers that I've never heard of before. Almost like mining pure uranium. Like one of your gold mine and finding nuggets. Yeah, you quite right. Uranium is effectively at 100 per cent. Just on the 80 per cent uranium, it's effectively pure uranium. So, yeah, it's an absolutely geological phenom. What has been discovered. And it's a real credit to everyone at next gen. And those, you know, before us at next gen, you know, we learn a lot from people who have been exploring the at the base of base in over 40 years. And so it's been a collective effort and also the government of Saskatchewan with a geological department. Having exceptional database really did help and contribute to this wonderful discovery. Now you mentioned that it's really hard to find these kinds of deposits. And I imagine a vertical deposit would be easy to miss compared to one spread out horizontally. What are some of the other challenges you have when you're trying to find these kinds of deposits? Yeah, well, quite right, Rod. These are effectively deposits that exist within the cracks within the ground. And fluids have washed through the cracks and then hit a hit a trough or a dam and mineralised over millions of years. And so it's about finding the crack and then finding one of those, those troughs or dams within that crack below the surface. And they're not geophysics gives you an indication that there's no, you know, magical key geophysics. You do unlocking the discovery of your aim deposits. The drill bit is the key. And the geophysics is imperfect and it's interpretive. So you can literally be skimming a hole along the side of one of these cracks, a metre away from mineralisation and not even know that you're within the vicinity of a world-class deposit. That's the difficulty. Now we ran a very diligent exploration research, refined targets and had very early success. But yeah, I don't want to make it oversimplified just how difficult these things are to find. They're incredibly difficult and hence why you need lots of intelligent, well-experienced and objective mindsets to make great discoveries. Because yeah, if it's so obvious someone else has already discovered it. And so you have to be bold and you have to really contest common geological thought and we did that. And rewrote geology, are you ready? in geology and in a lot of respects. I read a little bit about the way that you're going to develop the rook one depositor, the arrow deposit. And it sounded like you had some unique ways of keeping the footprint small by doing a lot of stuff underground. It's not always done that way. Can you talk about that a bit? To minimize the impact of drilling from surface, we did a number of things where we wedged and did some directional drilling. Basically you use the same hole three times and then you branch off it. So that minimizes the disturbance at surface as much as possible. And we've done that. We have a very minimalistic view at or approach at next-gen. Anything we do, we will only impact as minimally as possible and then immediately start replimating. Given the grade of the project, it is actually physically a very small footprint with the proposed surface infrastructure, including the airstrip. It would fit in to most sports stadiums and the surrounding car park around the world. So it's a very small surface expression. And we have a very minimal impact on the environment. What we do, we immediately reclamation. So when I said before our one of our criteria is, this is going to be the most well-managed mine environmentally in the world. And that is a function of its technical setting, being very competent rock and clean metallurgy, the small footprint, but also some of the design parameters. And so we are actually building underground tailings, storage facilities. And the consequence of that is it does cost more both capex and optics, but it's a elite environmentally. And it avoids at the end of mining, having a reclamation liability, which can go into the hundreds of millions and for many decades, with our approach within three to five years following the mine, closing, you'll be hard pressed to know that there's ever a mine in the area. And so that is a reflection of our approach. We are elite in every aspect of our operations. It's the most sensible. I'm actually thinking it'll start becoming the standard for mining projects around the world. So you're even going to be milling your underground, is that correct? To a degree, we'll pre-process a degree of it underground, but it'll come to surface and go through the mill, which again is a very tiny mill given the higher grade, but the low volume of rock. And then we'll be packaging it and sending it off to the converter to start the process to become nuclear fuel in the reactors. And from our mind gate to being fabricated for the fuel rods to go in the nuclear reactor, it's about a two year process. So there's a lot of planning involved from the utility and the utility takes ownership once the U-Thru-08 arrives at the converter. Yeah, a lot of planning. And it speaks to your earlier point, right, all this nuclear energy demand has to be fueled by the uranium. And so there's been quite an extensive period where there's been an under-development of uranium mines. The current producing mines are coming to the end of their useful lives. And hence, the need for our project is absolutely critical and present. And the world needs two to three arrows immediately. And yet, they just don't exist. The price of uranium is going to be far higher in the future. During the last dozen years or more, the world has been producing less uranium than it's been consuming. We've been drawing down inventory. Is that process near its end or is there still large inventory left in the world? No, it's near its end. The industry did have the benefit of a bar symmetry built up over the 1980s and early 1990s. But when you look at the inventory levels of the major producers, mine producers of uranium, they are all that historical low levels. And the amount of stock on hand held by the utilities is at record low levels. And we're already seeing the impact of that in the uranium price. It was only about five years ago. It was about $17 a pound today. It's at $72 a pound and increasing. The quantity of available supplies to be transacted is at or near the bare cupboard levels. Now, the numbers you just stated, I think are spot prices. It isn't your only mostly traded in long-term contracts. Yeah, it's both the combination of long-term contracts and spot prices. Historically, a lot of term contracts were at fixed prices, but they'd been changing over the last three years. They're now more referenced to the spot price at the time. A delivery somehow have flaws and ceilings. Others are totally exposed to spot at the time. A delivery. And then there's others with no flaws, but very high ceilings. And so the term market is often assumed to be just a fixed price. It's not, that's changed. That's gone. That's forever. That's gone. It does have some price certainly component to it. But the contract's next gen's been signing a heavily weighted towards the spot price and at the time of delivery. And so we provide complete leverage to the price of your annual in the future, given our very high level of production certainty. That's in the interest of the utilities, but also in the interest of all of our stakeholders to ensure that they're optimizing the return on every pound produced. Do you are close enough now to getting your mind constructed in operation that you're signing sales contract, is that correct? Yes, there's we have currently 10 million pounds under contract. We have another five negotiations at bearing stages of completeness. The level of activity around the off-take negotiations has increased considerably. And we're very busy on it. I think that reflects not only the stage of next gen's development and utilities can see that we'll be in production in the near term. But also the demand current producers are having difficulties maintaining production levels. They're coming to the end of their mind lives. And so utilities see this and they're looking to four alternative sources of supply. We're a brand new mine in a fantastic location and we have a very high level of certainty around our production volume and costs and our clients very much welcome that and want to expose you to that. How long will your mind lash? The current resource estimate and as I mentioned earlier we know it's much larger. Both the measured indicated in third it will be approximately a 17 year old body. As I said we've got mineralisation around that. We know it's much larger and hence we've applied for an initial 24 year mine license. Very recently we discovered a new area mineralisation only 3.5km jouice of arrow along another parallel crack in the ground. And whilst we don't have a resource definition around that yet because we're still looking to understand just its size and extent. It's no doubt that's crossed a threshold that subject to further permitting would complement the the mine life at at arrow. Anyone can safely weigh that given the mineralisation that's no one. This mine is likely to be a 30 plus year year mine life. And look we found those two amazing deposits very early on like we've still got over 95% of our property to explore. It's just that we found what is the world's best on the 21st drill hole. We haven't fully explored the project at all. As I said we've got another 95% of the area to explore. I think those facts state for themselves that the likely order of us finding a additional mineralisation is very high. So I would even qualify that 30 year mine life that it's probably quite conservative and could likely be a lot more. It sounds like some of your employees might have grandchildren working there. Yeah that's right and most likely I will no longer be standing on on this planet when it closes. Which is a little bit about how you what's what's the physical process of getting the or out of the ground or is it done with people telling it fiction shovels or is it done with machines or how do you do this? Yeah so it's it's it's it's called block caving and and a lot of sorry long hole stoping but basically you're taking blocks of ore from underground and moving them up the vertical shaft to surface. This mine will be one of the most technologically advanced mines on the planet. It'll be highly automated. We're working with some equipment suppliers to have the equipment operated remotely from surface minimising the number of people that are underground at all times to its absolute minimum and ensuring that the interaction between machinery and humans are as infrequent as possible prioritising the safety of everyone involved. So it will be you know highly mechanised, automated and and efficient as a consequence. There will be times when people do go underground no doubt about it but far less than what you see in the current operating mines and also those of the past. Is it true that in some of the very high greed uranium mines it's actually dangerous from a radiation point of view to have people in the mine too long? Yeah it well it it's in context that the ore is very high grade. The exposure levels are monitored like people wear dosometers so they're constantly monitored with all the procedures that you have in place and the practices. You know the radiation exposure in context to an underground work and one of those mines over the course of the full year is less than an airline pilot that does lead from New York to London over the course of 12 months. So in context yes there is radiation exposure aspects to be managed but in context it's less than an airline pilot who flies that leg annual on that over the course of a year. I asked that was a leading question because I was pretty sure it was not a real problem but I wanted to hear your response. Yeah you got this nice vertical deposit it's going to be lasting for roughly a couple of decades and you said you're going to supply 30% 25% of the world's uranium demand at least compared to what it demand is today. That's correct. And hopefully from my point of view the demand should be three or four times or just today sometime in the relatively near future. Yeah correct it's incredibly exciting. fighting economically. And it is for other companies that are looking to move their projects into production. The fact is though, if all of them get into production, it still won't be enough. And hence, the consequence will be far higher in uranium prices on a per pound basis be it in the spot market or under contract. Well, as you've seen, commodities that cure for high prices is high prices, although it does take a while to get new uranium mines into production. You've been working on yours for what, 12, 14 years? Yeah, that's right. We, that's a really good point, Rob, which I think is overlooked. The, even if the price of uranium goes to $200 a pound, these mines just can't turn on. Even those that have been discovered take an enormous amount of time. You know, 15 years plus, like we discovered this in 2014 it's now 2025. So that's 11 years. You know, we discovered ours in record time in terms of meters drilled and output cost. It's in a great location, ideal technical setting, great regulatory process. We're in our 11th year. So in the time to build the mine will be four years to get it into full production from the moment we're permitted. And so even if those are mine today of the equivalent of our own, as I said before, the world needs two to three arrows. And that is immediately like two day. If there's another one discovered, it wouldn't be until like 2040 that would see the first production. So the, the investment thesis for those on the call that are also interested in the spot price and, and exposure to the sector, it's incredibly compelling because, you know, nuclear power is absolutely fundamental to reliable, low cost provision of power and low cost provision of power is so material to a healthy economy and populations every standard living. It's, it's incredibly compelling on so many facets. So now that you're going through the process and you're getting close to at least finishing the regulatory review part. And this is just a new regulatory impact while you're building it. Are there parts of that process? Do you see it could be accelerated or there just things that have to be done and they just take a long time? I think with respect to our project, it's, it's so close to the end of any acceleration is, is going to, you know, not really impact the overall timeline. But with Prime Minister Kani coming in, he, he's identified, you know, the need to accelerate the regulatory process. And, you know, there are areas that could be more efficient. We went through a provincial Saskatchewan province permitting process, which was incredibly rigorous because the province takes responsibility for the mine environmentally. So it's very, very rigorous. And then that process is mirrored at the federal level. So there is, there are efficiencies that the Prime Minister of Canada recognises could be implemented. And part of his bill C-5 being introduced is, is directly aimed at that for major projects. I'm, I'm really pleased that governments have recognised that your present Trump has also recognised that and is accelerating approval for uranium projects in the US. And, and that is really reflecting the, the urgency around these projects that I mentioned earlier that supply needs to increase dramatically and quickly in order to meet this demand that's coming. I'm all in favour in a, in a more efficiency, efficient regulatory process for everyone. And it's great news that that will be coming in Canada. But as I said earlier, I think we're so far advanced and we've got the hearing date in 80 day, yeah, about 89 days from now. I don't think the impact of any of those efficiencies, yeah, they're going to occur after we're approved. Of course, you said you've got more deposits to do. So maybe the efficiency is to help out your next time. Yeah, not entirely. This is great. I am excited for what you guys are doing. I'm really excited to hear that there's going to be a new source of uranium. Not so pleased the fact is going to take another four years. It's done like there's a lot of construction work that needs to be done. And something's just take time. The additional pounds on the market will be useful by the time they get, oh yeah, the hand of it. Well, that's going to ask me, how much power does your nice, fancy automated mind use? In not a lot, as I said, like we can fit our whole mining operation so that it fits expression within, say, the rudges arena at Blue Jays Stadium and that and the surrounding block, it's a very small footprint. So we don't use a lot of power at all. And whilst it's heavily automated, we're only moving the all volume of about one and a half double deck of buses a day. That's all. So it's actually a very tiny mine. What a master, not a movement. Yeah, that's exactly. It's incredibly efficient from an impact perspective as well. And yet the output that the uranium will generate is incredible like our annual production will produce enough power for them five most popular states in the US. That's the scale of what we're talking about with respect to our mind. Quite incredible. The reason I asked is it's some lines of all kinds of materials processing do require a lot of power. And I always like to ask uranium miners if they plan to use uranium as their power source. Yeah. So we, because of the location of our project, we'll be using gas generators, plus a combination of wind and solar to power our mind. And that is the most efficient use. I've already mentioned the power that the uranium will generate. So we're well on the positive side of a net contribution. The other aspect is that it's entirely carbon free. And that amount of power is the equivalent of taking off 70 million vehicles off the road annually in terms of CO2 generation. So it has an incredible environmental positive as well at the same time relative to the other sources of power. Yeah, this isn't a criticism. What you're planning to use. It just falls back to an era of, in my career, when I was helping to buy software for the US Navy. And we always asked the people that were trying to sell a software, do you use your own product? We asked, do you eat your own dog food? So our thought was, hey, if they're trying to sell some product, if they don't use it themselves, it must have to be a very good product. Yeah. Now, there's the good news is the province of Saskatchewan is looking to deploy small modular reactors in the province. Post 2030. And we very much be a strong advocate for one of those located in our region, also powering the local communities as well. So I think one day, very much likely, we'll be that the uranium out of the mine will be the one powering the small modular reactor, which also powers the mine, but also surrounding communities. Terrific. Hey, Lee, I really appreciate your time. I'm going to offer you the opportunity to summarize. Do you have anything else you'd like to share with us and tell us about uranium mining about next year in a particular or about your own philosophies of the importance of clean energy? Yeah, thank you, Rata. And it's been my absolute privilege to speak on today's show. Provisional, clean, safe, reliable power. Let's cost efficient is absolutely fundamental to any economies population and the average standard living. So the provision of that power is absolutely critical for a healthy, happy planet. We are developing a mine, which is going to be 22% to 25% of that world supply of the key component to deliver that energy. And we're doing it in a manner at next year in which is setting new standards be it environmentally, socially or technically. That's how we're judging ourselves as an organization. We have a phenomenal deposit, but it's in the ground. We are judging ourselves on how we extract it and ultimately deliver it to the world's economies. For the listeners out there, it's an incredible good news story in the resources market on many fronts. And there's a highly dedicated team at next-gen who is focused on delivering it as of outlined. I'd encourage anyone to go on our website. Next-genenergy.ca. And take a few moments to have a look at some of the great things that the company's done, not just in the mining space, but also the social space with our scholarship programs, even going down to the dog fostering, but a wide variety of programs, which are making such an impositive impact to the local communities where we operate. With that, thank you, Rod, and the Atomic Podcast for having made today. You're welcome. And I've been speaking with Lee Currier, the CEO of Next-gen Energy. Lee, thank you very much for your time. And thank you very much. And I'll keep up with you guys. I hope you enjoyed this episode of The Atomic Show. This is Rod Adams. I've been your host for The Atomic Show for more than 15 years. As a publisher of Atomic Insights, I've been speaking with experts in analyzing nuclear energy for more than three decades. About half a decade ago, it became clear that investing in advanced nuclear developments could provide exceptional returns. Successful investors, based in Silicon Valley agreed. While I'll continue to produce new content, Atomic Insights is now a part of the Nucleation Capital. A venture capital fund that specializes in nuclear and nuclear adjacent emerging companies. As a managing partner at Nucleation Capital, I'm expanding my access and digging even deeper into nuclear energy companies. My partners and I are working hard to select ventures with extraordinary promises success. Their building the advanced nuclear sector and helping to expand our clean energy options. 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